Climate change policy and the success of the Greens in the 2010 Australian Federal election

Beyond Zero's Matthew Wright and Scott Bilby speak to Hayley Conway, of the Senate Campaign Team from the Australian Greens Victoria, about climate change policy and the success of the Greens in the 2010 Australian Federal election.

Beyond Zero speaks to Hayley Conway

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Transcript

Hello.  Welcome to Beyond Zero, a show covering issues relating to climate change including the latest news, science of solutions.  Beyond Zero is produced in the studios of 3CR Melbourne, broadcast Australia-wide on the community radio network and syndicated internationally.

This show is produced by Beyond Zero Emissions, an Australian-based climate change campaign centre.  It’s our understanding that human-caused global warming has already exceeded safe limits and that we must act immediately to reduce our levels of greenhouse gas emissions to zero and below. 

Scott Bilby:     My name’s Scott Bilby and with me in the studio as usual is Matthew Wright.  How are you going Matt?

Matthew Wright:     Good.  How are you?

Scott Bilby:     Now Matthew, today we’re going to be speaking with Hayley Conway.  She’s from the Senate Campaign Team of the Australian Greens in Victoria so she’s going to tell us some interesting bits and pieces about climate change, their policy and the success of the Greens in the federal election.

Matthew Wright:     And I think obviously how climate change would affect the vote especially, you know, the amazing Senate sweep and perhaps locally here in Melbourne where this studio is located.  See if we’ve got Hayley there on the line.

Scott Bilby:     Hello, Hayley?

Hayley Conway:     Hello.

Scott Bilby:     How are you going?

Hayley Conway:     Good, thank you.  How are you both?

Scott Bilby:     Very good, thank you.  Now, we’re going to talk you about the Senate sweep and et cetera, et cetera, because the Greens did quite well just the other week at the Australian Federal Election, 21st of August.  But we want to just find out a little bit about you and tell us how you got involved with the Greens.  Can you just tell us how that all started?

Hayley Conway:     Sure.  I got involved with the Greens when I was living back in New South Wales.  So when I first started at university basically just because it was my feeling that the older parties didn’t get it.  They didn’t get it not only when it came to issues of climate change but also just issues of human rights which I think are pretty fundamental to the way that the world should be operating. 

So whether it was about issues of refugees or gay and lesbian equality as well as a whole bunch of other things, it just felt they just didn’t have a clue what they were talking about and the Greens were really presenting a positive image that, yeah, reflected how I felt about it.  So that was, that was pretty much it for me.  It was really simple.

Scott Bilby:     And can you just quickly tell us what the Senate Campaign Team is?

Hayley Conway:     Yep.  In the federal election everyone fills in two ballot papers and one of them is who your House of Representative member which is your Lower House seat.  And that’s, you know, the small sort of geographical area that you’re in.  But the Senate is a state-wide seat that is filled by twelve people which only has, I guess, six people elected to it at each federal election. 

So the Senate Campaign Team is a state-wide campaign team.  In the case of the Greens it’s quite a small one and also full of a lot of volunteers.  It’s really well supported by each of the Lower House campaigns in each geographical region but is essentially a state-wide campaign to give Victoria representation by the Greens basically.

Scott Bilby:     Now, at Beyond Zero Emissions we are obviously very concerned about human-induced global warming.  So what factor do you see as climate change in the election and the swing from Labor and the Liberal National coalition?

Hayley Conway:     Look, I think climate change played as big a role in this election as it did in the last one where we saw Kevin Rudd swept to power off the back of, you know, the greatest moral challenge of our time.  A challenge which he turned his back on as soon as the ETS had a bit of trouble getting through the Senate.  Essentially because he’d negotiated with the Coalition to such an extent that the ETS that they proposed was one that was going to cost billions of dollars in compensation that would be spent off shore, so not even in Australia, but would be spent off shore and wouldn’t even reduce emissions. 

So I think that you saw exactly the same response by the Australian public to climate change in 2010 as you saw in 2007 which is that they believed that climate change firstly, is real, and that something needs to be done immediately to stop sort of the grossest impacts of climate change. 

And and I think that’s why we saw, the Greens saw a bigger swing than either of the old parties in this election.  And I think that is really reflective of what people are thinking about climate change and how urgent the need for action is.

Scott Bilby:     Now, Hayley, I do recall reading about the different policies the different parties had on climate change and the like.  And the Greens policy was, well, certainly to me personally is far more preferable on climate change than both Labor or Liberal. 

But I’m wondering about the average voter out there.  They probably didn’t really pay much attention to that sort of stuff at all and yet we say that climate change was a factor.  So is it kind of just like ... is it something like by osmosis or something?  Just that people kind of get the sense that the Greens are more concerned about those sort of things without really looking at the details and they’re voting for Green anyway or how do you see that?

Hayley Conway:     Yeah, look I think that kind of sort of social osmosis really is a part of it, particularly when you’re talking about elections, people in lots of ways do like to vote for who their friends are voting for.  You know, it’s a very ... voting, as much as it’s quite personal, is also something that is quite social in lots of ways.  Groups of people who are similar vote in similar ways.

And the Greens have worked for a long time and have grown out of a social movement that is essentially around protecting the environment and increasing our sustainability, not in a way that reduces the way that humans can actually enjoy that environment, but in a way that makes sure that we can continue to enjoy it for many generations to come.

And I think that’s something that people do get used to and it becomes sort of ... it’s almost part of like the social conversation that’s happening all the time that they, that people essentially assume that the Greens just will have a better climate change policy and they will have better policies when it comes to protecting our forests and reducing the impacts of drought and saving our water systems.  So I think in lots of ways yes, there certainly is just a bit of social osmosis that happens but then in other ways as well.

I think one of the things that people who spoke to me also found really appealing was that the Greens actually put their policies on the website.  It wasn’t just a matter of creating a platform like the other parties do which basically just means it’s a kind of a relatively short essay of the broad values that you believe in and then release policy initiatives throughout the election.  So rather than doing that, we actually released a full suite of policies that said, ‘This is what we want to do and this is how we’re going to do it.’  Not just bits and pieces leaked out in terms of this is how much money we’ll spend on each group of people.

So, you know, we actually approached the election quite differently and it gives people a chance to do the research themselves and not just have to wait for the media to pick up a story that you might be interested in about the election.

Scott Bilby:     So yes, less stage managing, I guess.  Now Richard Di Natale, was he the focus of the Senate Campaign Team in Victoria?  Just, you know, getting Richard across the line, was that your main focus?

Hayley Conway:     Yeah, look it certainly was.  Richard was the first candidate, so the number one candidate on our Senate ticket.  And getting him across the line was a main priority for us and we were really happy with the way the result turned out.  And, you know, he campaigned incredibly hard for basically on the things that he believed in. 

So it’s a real vindication, being able to sort of come from people telling you that you’re a fringe element to people saying, ‘Actually he got across the line with more than a quota in his own right., which is, you know, something that other Greens around the country have yet to be able to do with the exception of Bob and Christine in Tasmania which has long been a pretty Green stronghold.

Scott Bilby:     Sure.  And I guess because I recall Richard Di Natale was running for the Lower House seat of Melbourne, state seat of Melbourne against Bronwyn Pike and he got quite good numbers there at that time.  And so I guess he’s just been plugging away at it and there’s community confidence over time and he’s finally got himself ... you know, he’s now a Senator-elect.

Matthew Wright:     He previously ran in the Senate as well at the last election.  And was very, very ... just pipped at the post by Steve Fielding from Family First which obviously is a pretty perverse outcome given that the Greens scored something like 11 or 12 per cent of the primary and Steve Fielding less than 2 per cent.  

Hayley Conway:     Yeah.  Yeah, that’s right.  That was quite, quite a shock, I think, in lots of ways.  And that was not the 2007 Federal Election but the one prior to it.  So yeah, it’s all been a bumpy ride for Richard.  He’s had a number of cracks at it but, you know, happy, happy where he is right now so that’s good.

Scott Bilby:     Yeah, well congratulations to Richard.  Now how many Senators do we have around Australia across all the states?

Hayley Conway:     In total?

Matthew Wright:     Yeah.

Hayley Conway:     Well, there’s twelve for each state and then another two for each territory.

Matthew Wright:     Okay, and how many Greens?

Hayley Conway:     At the moment there are five sitting senators so that’s senators who were elected before 2010.  And then there will be another four added so we will have at least one senator from every state in Australia and two from Tasmania and WA.  And then we’ll also have Adam Bandt in the Lower House.  So nine senators in total plus Adam Bandt in the seat of Melbourne.

Matthew Wright:     And that would bring extra, you know, more funds into the party and helps kind of, you know, and that in turn helps you to build profile even further.  Has that kind of been the general gist over the last few years and stuff like that?  Like, because I remember leading up to this federal election I saw quite a lot of billboards and stuff like that for Greens and I seem to think, wow, they’ve got probably as many billboards and stuff for the Greens as they do for the Australian Labor Party.  And I hadn’t really been aware of that before.

So is that how funds are being distributed out to try and get more and more people in and stuff like that and bolster kind of regions where, you know, you don’t have strong support?

Hayley Conway:     Yeah.  Look, and the billboards I think mostly that people saw, and are what you’re talking about, are the ones in the seat of Melbourne.  And those are billboards that are actually paid for solely by donations specifically to the Melbourne campaign.  So really aimed at winning that Lower House seat for the first time in a federal election.

Yeah, but obviously the party’s main focus was winning a Senate seat and so what we did was obviously a lot of focus on getting out into smaller areas where they don’t necessarily get the major news coverage and all of those sorts of things. 

And basically just getting out into communities and talking to them as much as we could about the issues that matter to them that certainly aren’t being picked up by major news outlets like drought relief and a lot of the kind of agricultural programs that the Greens put out there.  As well as the things that we’re better known for around public education and climate change and health. 

So it was a pretty, I guess a bit of a hard-fought campaign trail in lots of ways.  There was a lot of travel and there was a lot of talking about a lot of different issues.  But it was ... you know, it turned out well in the end so that’s a good sign.

Scott Bilby:     We’re speaking with Hayley Conway from the Senate Campaign Team of the Australian Greens Victoria.  Hayley, now, so the Greens have made an announcement on their website that they’ve signed an agreement with the Australian Labor Party to ensure the stability for Labor in government. 

And it says here, ‘The Greens will ensure supply and oppose any notion ... any motion, I should say, of no confidence in the government from other parties or MPs.  And in return Labor promises to work with the Greens to deliver improved transparency and integrity and also to address climate change.’

Can you tell us a little bit about that?  You know, how much sway can the Greens have to kind of really make Labor, you know, kind of get their act together on climate change?

Hayley Conway:     Look, and that’s a good question and it was one that was levelled at us for a long time in the lead up to this election.  You know, what can you do when you’ve only got one seat?  What does it matter, you know, if you only have one seat.  And I think if people look at the details of that agreement they can see exactly how much power you can have just by sitting in one seat and trying to work in a cooperative fashion which is something that the Labor Party has not necessarily got a great record on in terms of being able to cooperate with other people.

So look, and it’s a really big step forward both in terms of action on climate change but also in terms of improving democracy and making sure that people have a genuine say in what’s going on and I guess know how the system works.  And can say, ‘This is what the person who represents me in Parliament says about things like climate change, about things like war in Afghanistan.’ 

So it will be I think quite an interesting next three years.  I think we’ll probably, you know, sort of in a couple of decades, look back on this period of Australian politics and sort of see this as a bit of a turning point.  And exactly what direction it goes in I’m not quite sure but I think this will be one of those moments.

So I think that probably what we’re seeing right now is that it is incredibly influential even to only have the one seat and to be able to start talking about things like climate change and putting it directly on the government’s agenda and saying that, ‘In order for you to maintain legitimacy as a prime minister, as a government, you must take action on climate change.’  And that’s essentially what Adam Bandt has done.  And we’re very proud of him for that and I think that that’s a really good step forward for the climate movement in Australia and for the climate of the world in general.

Matthew Wright:     Now, people have said after the election that the swing to the Greens is more a protest vote.  So the swing to the Greens and to some independents and stuff like that was more a protest vote against Labor and Liberal and we’re not likely, you know, to ... so, the Greens would be pretty hard pressed to kind of keep that for the next election and stuff like that.

So, you know, how accurate do you think that is or do you think, no, we can keep this momentum going and push it further at the next election?  Sorry to think too far ahead on you like that.

Hayley Conway:     No.  No.  No.  Not at all.  Look and that really is something I guess that people do consider.  But the way you have to think about polls, regardless of whether it’s on election day or the polls immediately before or after or six months out or three years out is that, you know, they really are just a reflection of, in lots of ways, how people are feeling on the day.  And they’re very much a thing that are subject to swings and roundabouts.

So, you know, polls will go up and down and that’s just reality.  But I guess that, you know, when people talk about the Greens as a protest vote that’s what they said when we first started standing people at federal elections and they were getting maybe 2 per cent of the vote.  And now we’re a party that picks up 11 per cent of the vote nationwide.  And at each federal election we have gained a steady increase in our vote.

So while, you know, this has been an unusually large swing, every time our vote has increased.  And so what that says to us is that these people are not protest voting, having one go, you know, getting a kick in at one of the major parties and then going back to them.  What they’re doing is voting Green for the first time, realising that in fact that’s not scary and is in fact quite a ... you know, has resulted in positive things for them and for the Australian government and are going back to do it again.  And some of their friends are doing it as well.  And we’re seeing that, again, that steady increase at each federal election.

Matthew Wright:     It’s just another one of those sort of those slights really.  You know, coming out and saying, ‘Oh, just a protest vote.’  Sort of like trying to diminish the value of those voters.  I mean, in fact perhaps we should turn that around and say people making that commentary are trying to say that those people are unintelligent, you know, are making a decision that’s just flimsy and weak.  When in fact actually a vote for the Greens possibly, in that case, was quite a considered decision and something they did with all their free will.

Hayley Conway:     Yeah.  That’s right.  And look, people don’t talk about votes that swing between Labor and Liberal as being a protest vote.  They talk about them as being swinging voters.  But people who vote Green are protest voters and I think it’s a bit sort of dangerous and in some ways quite, I guess, patronising language about the way that people do choose to vote. 

So it’s interesting to sort of be able to put that out there and say, ‘Well actually, these people don’t ever go back to one of the old parties.  What they do is vote Green and stay there because it feels better and because they know that something is happening.’  So yeah, it is interesting to see I guess how that language will change around voters’ intentions as well over the next few years.

Matthew Wright:     I think many people argue that, you know, in the media, that they basically I guess in a way malign the Greens.  And they say that they argue for the status quo of Labor and Liberal and they set the argument up as just being those. 

But as the Greens constituency grows and it becomes more and more obvious to various political and media commentators that you’re talking about 10, 13, 15, 20 per cent of the public, at what point do you think does the media actually have to, Australia-wide, treat that demographic, that, you know, 10 per cent or 20 per cent of the public, as being as big a deal as the rest of their readership and their constituency?

Hayley Conway:     Yep.  And, you know, obviously I think that the Greens should get an awful lot more coverage in the media.  I’m not going to pretend like I don’t.  But it certainly is interesting to see the kind of issues that consistently get coverage and those that do not.  You know, it was amazing the kind of coverage that Julia Gillard got just for appearing in Women’s Weekly and, you know?  And those sorts of things are really, I think, important questions.  That a prime minister can get a huge amount of coverage essentially for appearing in a gossip magazine while there are parties putting out serious policies who won’t get anything like that coverage.

But on top of that as well how much of the Australian population are indigenous?  And just how much indigenous news do we see in the media, you know?  So there are a whole lot of groups of people that you could apply that to.  And I really ... you know, it would be good to see the media showing a bit more of a broad cross-section of what’s actually on offer in Australian society than just I guess the big sort of stuff that they’re showing everyday that everyone else is already writing about.

Matthew Wright:     Yeah, we’ve got Tony Windsor, Bob Katter and Rob Oakeshott now choosing between the 74 votes that have lined up in favour of the Labor government and the 73 votes that have lined up in favour of a Liberal government.  Can you give us a bit of analysis perhaps from your perspective, I guess?  You’re hooked in with a political party machine and there’ll be lots of opinions flying around and maybe they can only be taken with a grain of salt.  But you can give us an idea of how the cards may fall and what sort of outcomes we could have in the coming three year electoral term.

Hayley Conway:     Yeah.  Look, I don’t have any particular insight but I guess my impression of it has been that you’ll see I think at least two of those independents side with Gillard.  I think that will be Windsor and Oakeshott at least.  Possibly Bob Katter as well but certainly the other two I think will be siding with Gillard.  They’ll look to bring Katter with them because obviously what you want is a bit of a buffer against sort of votes of no confidence against the government.

Matthew Wright:     Someone being sick.

Hayley Conway:     Yeah, well also that.  But, you know, the only thing that’s been common so far to the deals that have been done with Adam Bandt and with Andrew Wilkie and the Labor Party have been that, you know, that they won’t block supply and around issues of no confidence in the government.

So it’s clear that the ALP is putting that kind of front and centre, that they do want to have a stable government out of this.  That they don’t want to have a government that’s subject to someone changing their mind and having a bad day deciding to cross the floor and vote in a no confidence motion on, on Wednesday after voting in the government in on Tuesday just because they feel like it.

So, you know, there is a bit of that going on.  But I honestly think that what we will see is a very, very, very slim Gillard government in for the next three years.  And then a very toughly fought election after that but I think that you’ll probably see Windsor and Oakeshott cross the floor and with a Gillard government and Bob Katter swinging somewhere in between.  He’s a bit hard to pin, that one.

Scott Bilby:     Now, so what are some of the things that the Greens are asking for from the Australian Labor Party in return for their support?  And like some of the things, like climate change focused sort of things.  Like what can the general public kind of expect to see the Greens driving in that area?

Matthew Wright:     Yeah, look I think some of things that you can expect to see is a really serious look at a price on carbon in Australia.  So, you know, ways that we can contribute to reduce our carbon emissions, both obviously domestically but also looking at the impact that that will have internationally.  So that will be one of the first things that they’ll go to is, you know, is a price on carbon and how we can implement that.

And then, of course, using some of that into investing in clean energy and clean energy industries in the places that are also going to be hardest hit by, you know, the shut down of more polluting industries.  You know, the gradual shut down that will occur over time as we transition to a clean energy economy.  And clean energy is a jobs rich economy but it will ... you know, there obviously is still that transition period.  So you want to make sure that that’s done well and that it’s done taking people’s interests in mind.  You know, their personal interests.  So their family and their mortgage and that they are being taken care of as the transition occurs.  But a price on carbon I think would be one of the first things. 

And then from there you’ll probably be looking at a whole raft of other things which will take a bit of time to find out what the best way to do it.  But things like looking at the Murray-Darling System and how that can be improved.  And, you know, how much water it needs and making sure that it gets that water in a pretty timely fashion as well. 

Obviously the Greens have done some more, I guess, work around protection of marine parks and marine reserves as well which are critical obviously to bio-systems.  Yeah, so there’s probably just a whole raft of things as well as just general planning and public transport infrastructure which will obviously have an impact on climate change but isn’t necessarily part of our climate change policy. 

But yeah, lots of those sorts of things that will really look at switching into a much more sustainable mode of living without sort of telling everyone to go back to grass huts and horse and cart, you know?  It will be just looking at ways that we can really switch what we do into ways that are more sustainable.

Matthew Wright:     Actually, I was listening to a conversation and I guess the accusation was that, and this was from a very conservative thinktank, the IPA, and a member of that.  And he was sort of saying, ‘Oh, the Greens, you know, they’re against progress.’ 

But this other person turned it back on them and said, ‘No, no, such-and-such, you’re against progress, you know?  Because actually the Greens had ...’ and his argument was the Greens had a high speed rail proposal and had a proposal to build, you know, solar thermal plants, had a proposal for fast-tracking renewable energy development.  So obviously progress is doing stuff.  It’s not not doing stuff and the Greens were offering to do things.

Hayley Conway:     Yeah.  Yep.  And look, you know, and that’s always been a bit of a response.  And it’s always I think amazed me that we can have exactly the same conservative often climate change sceptic group saying, you know, the Greens want to send us back to our grass huts while also calling us inner city elites at the same time, you know?  It amazes me that they can get away with that but nonetheless.

Scott Bilby:     Now Hayley, we’re coming to the end now but I’d just like to ask you, the Senate Campaign Team, what’s the rest of the year and the next year or so looking for them?  Like, what sort of things are they going to be working on?

Hayley Conway:     Right, well in terms of, I guess, jobs most of us have wrapped up with the campaign.  There is not campaign to go.  But obviously Richard Di Natale doesn’t take his seat in the Senate until the 1st of July 2011.  So we’ll all just basically be working together to ensure that, you know, he gets out there and gets to do a lot of community consultation particularly around health.  Richard is a doctor and he’s really interested in a lot of the impacts of climate change on health but also public policy around health issues.

So yeah, that’s one of the things we’ll be doing is basically just getting out into the community, making sure that we do hear what people all around Victoria want, you know, from a Green representative in the Senate so that basically once we get to the 1st of July 2011 we can hit the ground running.  And we’ll be supporting him to do that.  So making sure he gets to appointments, making sure that his diary’s up to speed, he’s got the research he needs, he’s in touch with all the sort of people who are trying to get in touch with him as well.

So, yeah.  Look, if there are groups out there that want to I guess have a conversation with Richard about what he’ll do when he’s in the Senate, the door’s pretty much always opened or at least the email is and we can certainly be in touch with them and get that ball rolling.  So yeah, it’s just a lot of laying some good groundwork for the next ten months.

Scott Bilby:     Okay.  Excellent.  And can you quickly give us that email?

Hayley Conway:     Yeah.  It’s

richard.dinatale@vic.greens.org.au

 Matthew Wright:     So that, yeah, if you want to find him you can probably check it out on the Vic Greens website as well. 

Hayley Conway:     That’s right.

Matthew Wright:     Yeah.  It’s

www.vic.greens.org.au

Look, we have to leave it there and we thank you very much for joining us today and sort of letting the public know a bit about, I guess, a post-mortem on the election and how the Greens clean sweep came about.  And I think that’s really informative and we thank you for sharing your insights.

Hayley Conway:     Great.  Thanks for having me.

 Matthew Wright:     Thanks, Hayley.

Transcript by Melody